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Old 2017-05-04 , 18:27
IanRob IanRob is offline
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Due to ongoing heartbeat hassles and based on the info from DSTV that 2 x EXPLORER 2'S in an Extraview environment do not require a heartbeat cable I bought 2 of the new Explorers. When the DSTV accredited installer came to do the installation I was informed that this scenario does not work properly and I would need new 64 core cable as well as multiplex switches on each cable from the smart LNB in order for it to function correctly.Anybody have any information on this as I was told quite categorically when I bought the decoders that they did not need to be linked and only the smart LNB was required?
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  #2  
Old 2017-05-04 , 21:24
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How long are the cable lengths from the SLNB (Smart LNB) to the decoders? MC Field Services recommends 20 metres for older decoders using this system, so probably similar with the Explora 2A models.
If the length is within that then there's no concern and it's as straight forward as you've been told.

The discussed cable specs sound way over the top to me, MC FS or Geoff D will be able to comment further on that if they're around.

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Originally Posted by IanRob View Post
...multiplex switches on each cable from the smart LNB in order for it to function correctly.
I think the installer must be referring to diplexers, which are not switches. You can tell him it's an absolute fact that the 2A model has a diplexer built in.
I suggest posting his company's name and the city so that MC can correct them and make sure they've got other facts right.

Wait for more detailed answers sometime tomorrow.
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Old 2017-05-04 , 22:30
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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So these are facts as we know it:

(1) There was the cable restriction of 20m between the decoder and the SLNB. One can overcome this to a certain extent by using higher quality cable such as the 64 core cable referred to in this thread. It is NOT a definite requirement for all installations. But as we know the installers out there, they will use very opportunity to squeeze the client base they can find!

(2) The Explora and the existing HD decoders model 4136 do require diplexers installed right behind the decoder in order to get the HB signal to pass over the LNB cabling.

(3) The Explora 2A has a built-in diplexer making it unnecessary for an external diplexer to be installed behind the Explora 2A.

So IF your intention is to install decoders (especially the 3-decoder combination) in different rooms THEN the HB signal can flow between the decoders via SLNB and the LNB cabling if so desired. If there are 2 Explora 2As in the mix then neither of them require a diplexer installed behind the decoders for XV to work. Only Explora and HD decoders still require the diplexer installed behind them. The normal idea is to connect the diplexer to the LNB port and the RF IN port on the decoders, leaving the RF OUT ports available for RF distribution from each decoder if so desired.

In most of these cases, it is assumed that each decoder will NOT be required to relay remote commands between the decoders and will operate independently from each other. No requirement exists for all decoders to be able to deliver content via RF to anywhere else in the home to other TVs.

If one wanted to distribute RF to other viewing points including TVs installed where the decoders are AND control all the decoders from every viewing point, one would then have to install the old fashioned HB cable solution, combining all the RF signals together with SLX type splitters before distribution and then remote control signals will flow between the decoders via this cabling.

That is where we all were up to and including the day before yesterday.

NEXT

It has since come to light that IF you want to be able to control decoders from other points included via the decoders themselves or with tvLINKs and you are NOT going to be distributing RF around the home or have decided to distribute content via HDMI, THEN remote commands into and out of the Explora 2A will NOT work without an external diplexer installed behind the Explora 2A.
One still has to therefore either install a diplexer or apparently even a simple T-piece behind an Explora 2A.

How this makes sense only MC can answer!

MC made quite a song and dance about the Explora 2A having an internal diplexer and therefore only requiring one cable connected to it, only to then find that somehow the decoder did not allow remote commands to flow through the internal diplexer, making it necessary to now add a diplexer behind the Explora 2A as well!

That is where this latest story is coming from, that a diplexer is now required behind the Explora 2A as well.

What is still unclear is IF RF content can also be passed via the SLNB and the LNB cabling. If so, the whole debate changes, AGAIN!


What is exceptionally irritating that every time this happens, it is because MC does NOT see fit to ensure their subscriber base is provided with the information and we have to squeeze it out of the system in drips and drabs.

Clear as MUD? Good, then you can consider yourself well informed!
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Last edited by Geoff D; 2017-05-04 at 22:44. .
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  #4  
Old 2017-05-04 , 22:50
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanRob View Post
Due to ongoing heartbeat hassles and based on the info from DSTV that 2 x EXPLORER 2'S in an Extraview environment do not require a heartbeat cable I bought 2 of the new Explorers. When the DSTV accredited installer came to do the installation I was informed that this scenario does not work properly and I would need new 64 core cable as well as multiplex switches on each cable from the smart LNB in order for it to function correctly.Anybody have any information on this as I was told quite categorically when I bought the decoders that they did not need to be linked and only the smart LNB was required?
In order to provide you with a reasonably accurate and hopefully useful answer, we would need to have some idea of what you are intending to do with the XV combination.

(1) Decoders installed in different rooms? Will these decoders operate entirely independently from each other?
(2) Do you want to be able view content from both decoders at all viewing points?
(3) Have you an estimate of the distance between the decoders and the antenna?
(4) Are you intending distributing RF around the home to other viewing points where tvLINKs are installed?
(5) Do you want to control all decoders from all viewing points?

BTW what are the problems you have been having for HB with your existing setup?
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Easyview, UEC 4T HD PVR, SD PVR, XV
Spare decoders: SD PVR(2), PACE HD PVR 4T, DSD 660, 1110, 1131, Explora 1
2 unmentionable FTA decoders
Win 10 Pro (64-bit) version 1703, build 15063.138
1.2m antenna, 8-way universal LNB, 2x6 MS, FSM permanently connected.
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Last edited by Geoff D; 2017-05-05 at 08:48. .
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  #5  
Old 2017-05-05 , 08:48
IanRob IanRob is offline
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Thanks Guys. Posted a reply early this am and it said it would be posted later?
Anyway current system is 4 tuner PVR as Primary , Original Explorer as secondary.
1) New system to be 2 x Explorer 2a's in different rooms with Smart LNB.
Possibility of using old Explorer as 3rd viewing environ. 4 TV's in different rooms. 2 connected to Primary and 2 to Secondary (at present 1 TV connected to Primary via HDMI and 3 to Secondary - 1 via HDMI 2 via cable) Only linked Decoder to be controllable from each room.
2)No . Only need to control the decoder it is linked to.
3)Primary +/- 35m . Secondary +/- 20m . 2nd TV from primary +/- 20m . 2nd TV from Secondary +/-15m.
4)As per 1 & 2.
5)No.
I think what the installer and his boss is alluding to is the same as Geoff's comments regarding the latest mess to come out of MC that have surfaced recently about the 2a's not working correctly or as advertised?
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  #6  
Old 2017-05-05 , 08:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanRob View Post
I think what the installer and his boss is alluding to is the same as Geoff's comments regarding the latest mess to come out of MC that have surfaced recently about the 2a's not working correctly or as advertised?
I don't think so - you've explained that relaying of commands isn't needed, so how the 2A works is fine for your needs. Just the distant primary LNB connection that will need beyond normal attention, and which I'll leave to the others to try make a plan for you.
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Old 2017-05-05 , 09:06
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanRob View Post
Thanks Guys. Posted a reply early this am and it said it would be posted later?
Anyway current system is 4 tuner PVR as Primary , Original Explorer as secondary.
1) New system to be 2 x Explorer 2a's in different rooms with Smart LNB.
Possibility of using old Explorer as 3rd viewing environ. 4 TV's in different rooms. 2 connected to Primary and 2 to Secondary (at present 1 TV connected to Primary via HDMI and 3 to Secondary - 1 via HDMI 2 via cable) Only linked Decoder to be controllable from each room.
2)No . Only need to control the decoder it is linked to.
3)Primary +/- 35m . Secondary +/- 20m . 2nd TV from primary +/- 20m . 2nd TV from Secondary +/-15m.
4)As per 1 & 2.
5)No.
I think what the installer and his boss is alluding to is the same as Geoff's comments regarding the latest mess to come out of MC that have surfaced recently about the 2a's not working correctly or as advertised?
Okay so here is my take on what you have now. The distances between the SLNB and the various decoder points is pushing the limits. Therefore his suggestion of using better cabling is valid.

BUT as you do not require either remote commands to be relayed between decoders, nor do you require RF distribution that will allow you to view any decoder anywhere, there is no need for diplexers behind the Explora 2As. There is a risk however, given the very long cable runs between the SLNB and the decoders and that the runs are not equal in length. The Installer is therefore playing it safe, by suggesting to install diplexers behind the Explora 2As anyway. Presumably experience has shown that the internal diplexer coupling is insufficient to guarantee HB flow in out-of-the ordinary installations such as yours.

The only decoder that will require a diplexer is if you decide to add the existing Explora to the mix. It will require a diplexer behind it.

UPDATE

Of course given the longer cable distances, it may be advisable to reconsider the current location of the antenna and try and find a place more or less half way between the two rooms to try and shorten the cable distances.

Another way out is to use two antennas, and run the HB cabling the old way between the decoders and NOT try and do this via the SLNBs.
__________________
Easyview, UEC 4T HD PVR, SD PVR, XV
Spare decoders: SD PVR(2), PACE HD PVR 4T, DSD 660, 1110, 1131, Explora 1
2 unmentionable FTA decoders
Win 10 Pro (64-bit) version 1703, build 15063.138
1.2m antenna, 8-way universal LNB, 2x6 MS, FSM permanently connected.
MS Edge 40 with MSEdge HTML 15

Last edited by Geoff D; 2017-05-05 at 09:18. .
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  #8  
Old 2017-05-05 , 09:16
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Ian, don't miss Geoff's edit re other possible options. Please let us know how it goes through to the end, all the best with it :-)
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  #9  
Old 2017-05-05 , 09:27
IanRob IanRob is offline
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Thanks very much once again to you both. It looks from what you are saying that the best bet is to use diplexers anyway and upgrade the cables. If so there is no need for the 2nd Explorer 2A as I am in the same position as just putting a diplexer behind the existing Explorer. The only reason for getting the 2nd Explorer 2A was to do away with the need for the HB cable?
The cable distances are so long because it is a double storey house.
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Old 2017-05-05 , 09:35
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Glad to help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanRob View Post
The cable distances are so long because it is a double storey house.
Ok, that's a different situation so here's a bit more;

If conduit space etc. isn't a problem then perhaps the best solution is to locate both decoders (whichever they end up being) in the room closest to the dish, and distribute from there.
HB is of prime concern, you don't want that playing up. The rest should be worth the extra hassle and cable routing expense in the long run.
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