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  #1  
Old 2011-04-13 , 08:53
NatashaM NatashaM is offline
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Angry Refund - Decoder

I have been a loyal subscriber to DSTV for the past 15yrs
I had the standard DSTV
Around 1yr ago I spent R 1500 on a LG DVD Recorder
that records on a Hard Drive
I normaly go out during the evening
so I record the programs & watch them when I get back

My DSTV Decoder stoped working last week
so on Friday Last week I went to the MNET offices in Randburg
They said that the decoder could not be repaired & that I had to buy
a new one - I bought new Decoder - DSD 1110 for R 599
After I conected this new decoder I tried to record something
& it said that it was copy protected. I called MNet & they said it is new software on all the new decoders preventing people from recording.
(I still dont understand how recording on a PVR hard drive can possibly be more leagal than recording on a LG hard drive - Both are Hard drives ?)

I was told the only option was to buy a PVR Decoder
So Now Not only will I have to pay R 1500 for a PVR Decoder
as Well as R 65 More a month But now M-Net have said
that they will not refund me the R 599 that I paid
for the DSD1110 decoder that I bought last week Friday

M-Net should have informed me of the changes to their decoders
regarding copy protection Before I spent the R599
NOW I WILL HAVE TO THROW THAT DSD1110 DECODER
IN THE DUSTBIN BECAUSE I CANT USE IT.

Dstv already Forced me to Upgrade to a PVR Decoder
even though I have no use for it - THE LEAST THEY COULD DO
IS REFUND ME FOR THE DECODER I BOUGHT ONE WEEK AGO WITHOUT BEEN INFORMED OF ALL THE RELEVANT INFO

Thanking You,
Natasha Michael
  #2  
Old 2011-04-13 , 09:05
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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You don't have to trow away the 1110 decoder as it can for no extra charge be activated using XV, giving you dual view functionality if that is any consolation.

As to the other issue ---- There is no way around it ---- as MC have decided to implement copy protection that prevents completely the recording of content on a second device

Whether what MC are doing is legal is another matter --- see this post under general about the other side of the debate

http://forum.dstv.com/showthread.php?t=11480
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  #3  
Old 2011-04-13 , 09:16
MC Marietjie's Avatar
MC Marietjie MC Marietjie is offline
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I have double checked this issue with out legal and decoder teams, and it seems I was mistaken on one point. You can copy content from linear television via the analogue port but only once and only for your private use.

Relevant sections of our current decoder FAQs:

Why is it that I cannot record to my DVD player?

In terms of copy protection, it is a contractual requirement that MultiChoice implement copy protection on all decoders moving forward. The copy protection implemented is in line with international standards.

For linear (normal) channels via an analogue output : copy protection allows for “copy once”, ie. you can copy the content to an external device which is compliant with these standards, but are prevented from using the copy on the external device to make additional copies (termed 2nd generation copies).

For linear (normal) channels via HDMI : HDCP has been implemented, ie. copy "never".

For all DStv ON DEMAND content (regardless of output used) : copy protection is set to copy "never".

If your DVD player is no longer allowing for recording of content, we suggest that you check the manual supplied with the equipment, including how copy protection has been implemented on that device. You may need to refer queries to the manufacturer of the equipment. It is important to note that the impact of copy protection on external recording devices is not unique to our market and has been reported in other territories where copy protection has been implemented.


Relevant sections of the new Terms and Conditions:

· Without limiting the restrictions in clause 38, you may not attempt to or - Copy any of the content of the MultiChoice Service, except by using the PVR functionality for time shifting or later private use during the period of this agreement; (pt 39.v)
· Redistribute, relay, retransmit or rebroadcast any of the content of the Selected Service(s), including any copy thereof that you may have made using the PVR functionality or otherwise (pt 15.7)
· Hire-out, sell, redistribute, relay, retransmit or rebroadcast any of the content of the MultiChoice Service, including any copy thereof that you may have made, whether using the Advanced Decoder Functionality or otherwise (pt 39. vi)
  #4  
Old 2011-04-13 , 09:24
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Sandtonman Sandtonman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatashaM View Post
......Dstv already Forced me to Upgrade to a PVR Decoder even though I have no use for it - THE LEAST THEY COULD DO IS REFUND ME FOR THE DECODER I BOUGHT ONE WEEK AGO WITHOUT BEEN INFORMED OF ALL THE RELEVANT INFO

Natasha Michael
Welcome to the Forum, Natasha.

Clearly you are grumpy about this, but no need to shout with CAPITAL letters here. All of us here (except those with an MC logo in their avatar) are subscribers just like you. and the MC folks who spend time here are all senior managers allocating their time to help.

1) For the record, if you had read MC's Tc and Cs, or had a good look around on the Forum, it makes it very clear that one is not allowed to make copies external to the PVR or Decoder. That said, let's try to help you.

1) As Geoff said, for no extra cost, you can have a second viewing environment should you wish. if that is of no interest to you then ....

2) If you have kept all the original packing of the 11xx decoder, and it really is only a week old, I suspect if you send a PM (without capital letters) to MC Marietjie, that points her to this discussion thread and explains the exact course of what transpired, that MC may consider helping you. It looks from the thread that you purchased direct from MC and not a shop? [EDIT: I see MC Marietjie has commented while I was making this post, so she is in the discussion loop]

3) But, in any case, you now have an HD PVR, so make the most of it. Get an HD TV, there are plenty of bargains out there and you have series recording at the touch of a single button, too without having to programme the off-board recorder; maybe this is a blessing in disguise as you are now just one step away from the wonderful world of HD.

Cheers, K.
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Last edited by Sandtonman; 2011-04-13 at 09:34. .
  #5  
Old 2011-04-13 , 09:33
Brian G Brian G is offline
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I'm delighted to report that I've just successfully done a short test recording from my up-to-date 1110 decoder of 260 Nat Geo.

@MC Marietjie - Thanks, that is much better news!

@NatashaM - There could be initial bugs in the implementation of the new software.
For comparison, my external LG PVR recorder is the RH399H.
  #6  
Old 2011-04-13 , 09:49
MC Brenda's Avatar
MC Brenda MC Brenda is offline
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Posts: 3,217
Just to confirm - there are no bugs in the copyright software. It has been tested multiple times by different parties and found to operate correctly. Inability to make a copy is likely due to how the external device manages / interprets the copyright flag on the content. (apologies for tech terms).
  #7  
Old 2011-04-13 , 10:31
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Thank You!

But your new T & Cs do not correctly capture the whole matter of copying - It specifically states that copy by any means other than the PVR is illegal

Therefore the copy terms do not reflect what your FAQs say and need amendment ---




Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Marietjie View Post
I have double checked this issue with out legal and decoder teams, and it seems I was mistaken on one point. You can copy content from linear television via the analogue port but only once and only for your private use.

Relevant sections of our current decoder FAQs:

Why is it that I cannot record to my DVD player?

In terms of copy protection, it is a contractual requirement that MultiChoice implement copy protection on all decoders moving forward. The copy protection implemented is in line with international standards.

For linear (normal) channels via an analogue output : copy protection allows for “copy once”, ie. you can copy the content to an external device which is compliant with these standards, but are prevented from using the copy on the external device to make additional copies (termed 2nd generation copies).

For linear (normal) channels via HDMI : HDCP has been implemented, ie. copy "never".

For all DStv ON DEMAND content (regardless of output used) : copy protection is set to copy "never".

If your DVD player is no longer allowing for recording of content, we suggest that you check the manual supplied with the equipment, including how copy protection has been implemented on that device. You may need to refer queries to the manufacturer of the equipment. It is important to note that the impact of copy protection on external recording devices is not unique to our market and has been reported in other territories where copy protection has been implemented.


Relevant sections of the new Terms and Conditions:

· Without limiting the restrictions in clause 38, you may not attempt to or - Copy any of the content of the MultiChoice Service, except by using the PVR functionality for time shifting or later private use during the period of this agreement; (pt 39.v)
· Redistribute, relay, retransmit or rebroadcast any of the content of the Selected Service(s), including any copy thereof that you may have made using the PVR functionality or otherwise (pt 15.7)
· Hire-out, sell, redistribute, relay, retransmit or rebroadcast any of the content of the MultiChoice Service, including any copy thereof that you may have made, whether using the Advanced Decoder Functionality or otherwise (pt 39. vi)
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Easyview, UEC 4T HD PVR, SD PVR, XV
Spare decoders: SD PVR(2), PACE HD PVR 4T, DSD 660, 1110, 1131, Explora 1
2 unmentionable FTA decoders
Win 10 Pro (64-bit) version 1703, build 15063.138
1.2m antenna, 8-way universal LNB, 2x6 MS, FSM permanently connected.
MS Edge 40 with MSEdge HTML 15

Last edited by Geoff D; 2011-04-13 at 10:35. .
  #8  
Old 2011-04-13 , 11:16
NatashaM NatashaM is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2
Thank You Geoff

Unfortunately I only have One TV set so I cant use the dual view functionality
& Now with Outlaying All that additional money for the PVR & Instalation
& the huge Increase in Subscription I definately wont be able to get another TV any time soon.

I accepted as a way of increasing sales DSTV eliminated the competition for dvd recorders
Obviously Sony & LG etc were selling to many DVD recorders so they had to be curbed.

Thats Fine - I Accepted that & thats why I Bought a PVR decoder
( All I did was take it that M-Net increased their subscription by 25% )

But what I have a Problem with is that I paid R599 for the other decoder for No Reason
DSTV should have Told me that their new decoders have software implemented
that might intefear with recording on an external device.
( I spoke to LG & they said that they are going to stop pruducing DVD recorders because DSTV have now put software into their new decoders that prevent recording to external devices - This was not on the old decoders - A friend of mine has a Old Decoder & I pluged my DVD recoder into this & can still record with the old DSTV Decoders )

All I want was a refund for the R599 - thats only Fair
I should be given a Refund for something I was not fully informed about
Considering that I did buy the PVR Decoder & I will be paying R65 every month

Thanking You,
Natasha Michael
  #9  
Old 2011-04-13 , 11:46
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Toilet Duck Toilet Duck is online now
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Is MC no longer swapping out decoders? I paid R342 last year to have an 1110 swapped out. They also sold Natasha an 1110? I thought the 1131 was the current model. If Natasha has had DStv for 15 years, I'm assuming it was a 990 decoder that she had?
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  #10  
Old 2011-04-13 , 12:01
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ivanj ivanj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toilet Duck View Post
Is MC no longer swapping out decoders? I paid R342 last year to have an 1110 swapped out. They also sold Natasha an 1110? I thought the 1131 was the current model. If Natasha has had DStv for 15 years, I'm assuming it was a 990 decoder that she had?
if u want natasha,

i have a silver 990 if u want?
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