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  #1  
Old 2014-04-04 , 12:37
Optimist Optimist is offline
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Default Posting philosophy

This thread is made with the most sincere intentions. I'm simply trying to understand how we can move forward as Forumites in the best way possible.

This was posted in another recent thread which I don't want to derail, hence this new thread;

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Marietjie View Post
...Always love you guys participating but ensure it actually adds to someone's understanding and does not cause further confusion. If you do not have a detailed understanding of our business, talking about ad insertion is confusing.
It seems like a catch 22 situation to me... if practised Forumites are to try and assist, or just want to add their opinions, how is that then possible?
Most of us can never really get the insight needed to have that kind of detailed understanding, so how would we even know if it's a distraction when we post about our viewpoint to the best of our ability??

This Forum presents many difficult and challenging issues, I think on the whole we do quite well in how we all manage to deal with them.
Perhaps the answer is to just be more tolerant of each "side's" and individuals' natural handicaps. Sometimes it's a bit stressful, but we do find ways to all help each other.

Any thoughts on how we can better learn how to keep subject matter on track while still putting forward our concepts?
  #2  
Old 2014-04-05 , 08:15
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XRay XRay is offline
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I think the following:
1. Stay positive and don't let something as trivial as a form get you down (with a handle like Optimist it sounds like you embrace this)
2. Always start from the assumption that people are trying to be helpful. If they make a mistake trust that it's an honest one.
3. Continue to ask and answer questions with this positive attitude. That way everyone learns
4. When you are considering posting something that goes against the above rather take it offline and go the PM route. That way you avoid unnecessary unpleasantness in the forum that does not add to the original discussion. It may also allow the other person to save face by fixing a bad post.

Most importantly, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
Don't sink to their level. Just give polite, factual responses or just ignore them.

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  #3  
Old 2014-04-05 , 10:22
Optimist Optimist is offline
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I like your philosophy XRay, and it belongs in this thread, but it doesn't sort out the lack of knowledge "problem". All I think I can add to that is that if we're unsure we should always state so to some degree (such as by using the term "IMO"). I certainly do try to - there's no shame in not being sure of or expert in something.

Sadly though, I also can't agree that this positivity approach is always practical...
It is essential to complain when necessary, politeness is the key and perhaps what separates the trolls from the rest of us.
But I'm the first to admit that there have been times I have gone the troll route when things are or appear to be out of hand. It gets a bit much sometimes, I suspect mainly due to the complexity of the subjects on this Forum which is a concentrated arena of negative issues. The amount of time some of us spend here also has its effect, no doubt on the brave Mods as well.
  #4  
Old 2014-04-05 , 10:40
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Sandtonman Sandtonman is offline
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Hi Brian, I'd like to add a pennyworth here too for a positive posting rule.

"Always re-read the post and put yourself in the Moderators' shoes before pressing the Submit Reply button". Clarify your meaning and adjust your language as necessary.

Never publish a post that is "political" or "divisive" just because you have an opinion (I'm not suggestion that you do this Brian, it's just my thoughts on the subject)

You are more aware than most Forumites of the challenges that the moderators have had and who still have, in supporting this Forum.

I frequently read posts from even the most seasoned and respected of Forumites that would raise my hackles if I was a senior executive at MC.

All Forumites wanting to be taken seriously, by both MC and the user community and who wish to avoid moderation, should avoid placing the Moderators between a rock (the mod's senior executive) and a hard place (the user community). It simply is not fair.

A balanced opinion, fairly expressed is the simple key, IMHO

So to repeat the simple rule --- "Always re-read the post and put yourself in the Moderators' shoes before pressing the Submit Reply button".

Cheers, K.
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Last edited by Sandtonman; 2014-04-05 at 10:52. . Reason: tidy up detail.
  #5  
Old 2014-04-05 , 11:14
Optimist Optimist is offline
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I'm glad this thread is progressing in this direction, these issues need attention.

Yes indeed Keith, we have both come a long way together along with a number of other Forumites and so understand these problems reasonably well.

As we know we can also point to a number of posts we too have made in the past which are just as "guilty" of the kind of disruption and concerns you're now talking about, not to mention many PMs etc. as well.
Sure, we're both trying in our own individual capacity to change some of that behaviour, as we have learnt what the deeper problems are we continue to try to refine the process.

But... this Forum would be less than honest or of sufficient value if it couldn't take the criticism its advertised as willing to do.
And, let's face it, as a public arena the ideal of this desired all round behaviour is not going to ever be achievable, at least not without significant backlash and other public opinion effects.

So, I don't know what the answer is, but this certainly isn't from a wider reality perspective. Unlike the presumed "good behaviour" in the private Fieldtrials section the rest of the Forum cannot ever achieve that en masse in my certain opinion.

But strive we all must... and hopefully the executive can see the reasoning here.

Like you and a good number of others, I want this Forum to succeed, and positively, I'm just not sure that certain business behaviour (which is normal within its own right I suppose) makes that possible.
I can't get more honest or frank than that... and will refrain from further such in-depth analogy, it's not really our business to dig that deep, certainly not in public.
  #6  
Old 2014-04-05 , 11:47
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Sandtonman Sandtonman is offline
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Default Ground rules continued....

Hi Brian, I think we are in violent agreement on this one

The point I'm making is NOT for individuals to restrict stating their opinion on a topic; that would be counterproductive.

I'm trying to influence the way that opinions are expressed, so as not to be overtly political or divisive; or to cause the moderators personal grief or offense. Therefore I firmly believe the following statement to be a reasonable ground rule....

"Always re-read the post and put yourself in the Moderators' shoes, (edit) as well as the shoes of other Forumites, before pressing the Submit Reply button". Clarify your meaning and adjust your language as necessary.


This is a business Forum, so social network freedom (fortunately) does not apply. Let me be more specific.
  • Be as clear, detailed and precise as possible at all times.
  • Use reasonable, structured English, with unambiguous grammar and punctuation.
  • Include graphics, screenshots and photos where relevant. A picture is still worth 1,000 words. e.g. "You may currently be experiencing signal disruption (see pic)".
  • At all times, avoid being accusative towards the moderators, or to other Forumites; remember Moderators are stuck in the middle and other Forumites are doing their best to help, with limited technical detail.
  • Avoid capital letters where possible, except to emphasise a SPECIFIC point.
  • Avoid exclamation marks. When you need feel the need to use them, to emphasise a point, just use one!
  • Always make your point; but make it fairly and in a balanced, reasonable polite way.
  • Do use the occasional "smiley"; It can reduce tension and "soften" the way a possibly contentious point is made
  • Never be categorical. Others may have views on the same topic that are poles apart. Allow space for such views to be expressed. (IMHO, AFIK etc.)
The above points summarise my views on the subject; others' input would be most welcome; they may differ substantially. Cheers, K.
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Last edited by Sandtonman; 2014-04-05 at 12:05. . Reason: Further mature the response
  #7  
Old 2014-04-05 , 12:10
Optimist Optimist is offline
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Now we're getting somewhere, Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtonman View Post
I'm trying to influence the way that opinions are expressed, so as not to be overtly political or divisive; or to cause the moderators personal grief or offense. Therefore I firmly believe the following statement to be a reasonable ground rule....

"Always re-read the post and put yourself in the Moderators' shoes before pressing the Submit Reply button". Clarify your meaning and adjust your language as necessary.
I too advocate the above, and try and practice it when my all-too-human side doesn't get in the way, or pressures reach closer to boiling point.
Not my best quality, but improving...

But enough about me, this thread is now very much about general behaviour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtonman View Post
This is a business Forum, so social network freedom does not apply.
Officially, yes. In reality it can never be seen that way by the masses who visit who do not think in those terms and I'm certain would not choose to respect that.
Still, some of us are helping to pull the magnetic effect of positive and negative into a more positive direction, long may we succeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtonman View Post
At all times, avoid being accusative towards the moderators; remember they are stuck in the middle.
I will go beyond normal public behaviour here and put myself on the spot - it actually rips at my heart when I have to see, and sometimes be responsible myself, for this effect. I have the utmost respect for the Mods here, way beyond what they can know or realise, BUT the bigger picture has sometimes called for this to be put second - such, very sadly, is how IMO it's been necessary to perform in order to get anywhere with some of the more stubborn extreme problems, most of which I'm glad to say have since been positively tackled.


I keep trying to leave this Forum as it's all too much for someone not supposedly directly involved, but whatever transpires with all these matters know that I'm smiling ear to ear over what has been achieved, I can honestly say that these days MC provide a much improved service and truly believe that this Forum has had a lot to do with it.
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