Forum > Decoders > Installation > explora 2 signal and user bands help
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Old 2017-06-08 , 14:17
idm1 idm1 is offline
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Default explora 2 signal and user bands help

I recently changed from a hdpvr 2p to an explora 2a. Signal strength on the explora 2 is unusual. Using the default user bands 0,1 and 2 of the lmx501 lnb signal is as follows on mnet 101:

t1 - strength = 67, quality = 100
t2 - 87 100
t3 - 83 80

on 111 mnet all stars

t1 - strength = 63, quality = 60
t2 - 87, 100
t3 - 63, 60

When I change user bands and frequency to 2,3 and 4 signal is as follows for mnet 101:
t1 - strength = 86, quality = 100
t2 85, 100
t3 80, 80

Using a 90cm dish, what I find strange is when I connect the single view hd 4u decoder, not in xtraview the signal strength and quality show 100 for strength and quality on all channels except 111 and that shows strength 100, quality 70.

Please will someone help, if possible to improve the strength and quality if at all possible. Thanks in advance.

Last edited by idm1; 2017-06-08 at 14:47. .
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  #2  
Old 2017-06-08 , 16:16
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Optimist Optimist is offline
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WARNING - this thread ends up containing unusual circumstances and should not be seen as general help information.


Welcome to posting :-)

From what you've posted the following can probably be stated / deduced, please correct anything misunderstood;

Firstly, I'm presuming that you're not trying to connect your 2P as well - 3 decoders used with XtraView (XV) on one subscription cannot include the 2P.

Also note that it makes no difference to the signal value results if your 4136 HD Decoder (4U) has been set up for XV yet or not, with the wrong User Band (UB) Index settings involved it will always have an affect on that either way if connected and powered up.

It sounds like your 4136 decoder was connected throughout here.
Also that it is using a Unicable connection and that the menu settings for the LNB choice are set up for that.
Under those circumstances the 4136 will by default be using UB Index 0. That is why you got better results with 2, 3 & 4 on the Explora, you can use those without a problem.

Before going on let's note the following;
Channel 101 HD is a Horizontally polarised channel.
Ch. 111 HD is Vertically polarised.
Tuner 2 only works properly when a recording is underway, so ignore for most part.
Tuner 3 is for the VOD stream for things like Catch Up (CU) and Box Office (BO) etc., on a set frequency - last known to be using a Vertically polarised signal for the Explora 2a.

This means that you may well have a LNB skew angle misalignment as "all" signal qualities should be 90%+ including what's used for tuner 3.

I say "all" because there are some abnormal results we've discovered, seen by a few of us so they are "normal". You've stumbled on one of them - ch. 111 HD... So its "low" 70% would appear to us to be normal and ok.


I suggest, once the UB Indexes are sorted out again if you've re-adjusted them, that you post Explora tuner 1 results for ch. 262 and then for ch. 405.
But tuner 3 does show a problem for sure.

Last edited by Optimist; 2017-06-08 at 18:52. .
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Old 2017-06-08 , 17:13
idm1 idm1 is offline
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Thanks for the reply Optimist,
to clarify, the signal levels that I have posted are for the connection of each decoder at one time, ie. only that mentioned decoder connected at one time. I am not attempting to connect the 2p in xv, it's being replaced by the explora 2a.

The user band that I used on the 4u is ub 3 - 2040, any of the others that I have tried displays a weaker signal.

Explora 2a user bands 2,3 and 4 ch.262
T1 = s/q =86/100
T2 = 87/100
T3 = 83/80

For ch.405
T1 = 86/100
T2 = 86/100
T3 = 83/79

UB set to default 0,1,2 ch.262
T1 = 68/100
T2 = 87/100
T3 = 82/77

ch.405
T1 = 68/100
T2 = 87/100
T3 = 82/78

Tuner 3 is using 11768 2/3 30000 v
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Old 2017-06-08 , 17:34
idm1 idm1 is offline
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Some additional information, when viewing the 3 signal's status on the home network screen the strength indicators for tuner 1 and 3 pulsate between equal to tuner 2 and lower, all 3 quality stay the same full blue bar, I assume 100%.

After access to that screen, check the signal level through help/general info/tuner status, the quality for tuner 3 is at 100% and strength at 83%.
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Old 2017-06-08 , 17:35
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Optimist Optimist is offline
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Glad to help :-)

Thanks for the clarity. This is posted with other readers in mind as well - don't ever share any UB Indexes (except for tuner 3 with multiple Exploras of the same model, also preferred not though), and in your case no problem not sharing.
So don't try to share UB Index 3. Your use of the default 0, 1 & 2 for the Explora is perfect with the 4136 using 3.

Chs. 262 & 405 are on opposite polarities.
Looking only at your second lot of results in your last post now;
As suspected, there's a problem with Vertical channels. But not just the LNB Skew angle being out (tuner 3 quality), also the strength of tuner 1 suggests further complications.
In another case this has recently been suspected of being related to the dish being out of alignment and picking up what's known as a "side-lobe" of the signal instead.
It's still being investigated by @Geoff D.
So all I can suggest at this stage is that you re-align, may be sufficient and is certainly needed. If a DIY project send a PM to Geoff D for his alignment recipe by clicking here


All based on believed to be accurate readings now.
A few more things that should assist;

If for any reason the 2P is connected via Unicable please keep it disconnected during this help period. If it was connected please let us know and re-check signals, but I presume not.

All signal strengths are recommended to be 80%+. (there is one abnormality in this case as well, only re tuner 3 - it can be as low as the low 70's, although perhaps not on the 2a.)

The Explora models are much more sensitive to signals than the 2P and other older decoders, so don't try comparing values. We don't know re the 4136, but from what you said earlier it sounds like it isn't as sensitive.

Last edited by Optimist; 2017-06-08 at 18:03. . Reason: Added PM link, and wording in orange
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Old 2017-06-08 , 17:47
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I've added the PM link to my previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idm1 View Post
Some additional information, when viewing the 3 signal's status on the home network screen the strength indicators for tuner 1 and 3 pulsate between equal to tuner 2 and lower, all 3 quality stay the same full blue bar, I assume 100%.

After access to that screen, check the signal level through help/general info/tuner status, the quality for tuner 3 is at 100% and strength at 83%.
Ok, this is also the same as what Geoff D and I are investigating / discussing.

We normally ignore the signal displays in the Home Network section as erratic, but believe this kind of observation you've made could be related to the problem of concern.

Why this may be affecting and then "correcting" the later tuner 3 reading is unknown but presumed to also be related, and may well say you have less of a problem.
However, tuner 1 strength remains a concern. BTW, turns out it was also a problem with Horizontal 101 HD in the first post, so not specifically polarisation related.

I'm going to probably leave any more to MC Field Services and Geoff D if they can add to this. You may need professional help, but honestly it's difficult to find a truly reliable installer.


@Mods - please note that I'm having auto-moderation issues again, please fix :-/
Seems to be related to first previewing a post, which I seldom do.

Last edited by Optimist; 2017-06-08 at 18:41. . Reason: Small item altered, no change to meaning
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Old 2017-06-08 , 18:01
idm1 idm1 is offline
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Only 1 unicable going to the lnb nothing else.
This is a diy and I have spent a considerable amount of time attempting to get the optimal alignment on the dish.

I remember when I first installed the 4136 as secondary to the 2p that I had the same issues that I resolved (not for ch.111) by changing the uhf frequency, not sure if this was the fix but it definitely made a difference.

I will pm Geoff D for his alignment recipe, hopefully I will get some success.

The side-lobe that you mention, is that perhaps the dish(bracket) not being level? I took a lot of care when installing the bracket to be level, although I am sure that something else may be at play here.

Also worth mentioning is the cable, length is about 10m max of I think rg6 copper braided screen. What is the recommended best to use?
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Old 2017-06-08 , 18:06
idm1 idm1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
Why this may be affecting and then "correcting" the later tuner 3 reading is unknown but presumed to also be related, and may well say you have less of a problem.
However, tuner 1 strength remains a concern. BTW, turns out it was also a problem with Horizontal 101 HD in the first post,
Also baffling is the change in strength with different user bands.
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  #9  
Old 2017-06-08 , 18:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idm1 View Post
I remember when I first installed the 4136 as secondary to the 2p that I had the same issues that I resolved (not for ch.111) by changing the uhf frequency, not sure if this was the fix but it definitely made a difference.
Strange RF UHF output should have no relation at all.

I'll leave Geoff to answer this post further, he's posting now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idm1 View Post
Also baffling is the change in strength with different user bands.
No, that's probably related to the earlier UB Index 3 clash.
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  #10  
Old 2017-06-08 , 18:11
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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I am going to be doing a whole lot of calcs tonight, so send me a PM with your location and I will include your site.

So far the important things to remember here are:

(1) Do not share userbands and frequencies between any decoders if you can help it.
(2) The only restriction one has is that the Explora 1 for tuner 1 can only be set to a userband and frequency between 0 and 7.
(3) as far as we know, the 4136 (4U) decoder has no restrictions. Just been shown that the 4U is also restricted to userband 0 - 7
(4) The 4U decoder default assumes connection to a universal port, but can be changed to use a Unicable port on a SLNB.
(5) There should be no pulsing of signal and quality when only one decoder is connected to an LNB at a time.
(6) I have now seen this pulsing behaviour on 3 installs. Two of them were using Universal LNBs connected to Explora Switches version 5-2, one was using the new LMX501 SLNB. Disconnecting the second XV decoder and leaving only the primary, immediately stops the pulsating values on the remaining decoder.
(7) The different userband frequencies will give different results simply because the cable attenuation is not constant across the bands, and because the gap between these frequencies is not constant either. I have not calculated these differences since the release of the new SLNB and for the additional userbands now available. That in itself is not an issue provided the signal quality is as high as possible and stable.

When you are ready, I suggest that you keep the Primary decoder on the defaults (0,1,2) and then use bands 3,4,5, 6 for the other decoders in the 3 decoder mix.
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Last edited by Geoff D; 2017-06-08 at 22:38. .
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