Forum > Decoders > Installation > Preparing for Hi Band (NOT an immediate need)
Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 2017-02-13 , 18:10
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
Changes remote batteries hourly
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: N/E JHB , Orig. Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,324
Question Preparing for Hi Band (NOT an immediate need)

I'll get the ball rolling with this, more may be added later by those so inclined.
Note that it's all Forumites' interpretations, probably accurate in most respects but not an official announcement of course.
Preparing early is a good idea, and the install advice we offer here will be accurate.

MC are planning to add Hi Band transponders to the service in a few months time or perhaps longer.
Today they started some tests on it.
The frequency that Hi Band normally starts at has been shifted a bit higher by MC for current technical reasons. That may change again, we don't know (just a technical consideration, won't have unknown impacts).

At this stage we don't know with any certainty if any SD decoders will be made able to use the Hi Band offerings, so this discussion isn't likely to include them at this time.
Note that the South African SD PVR is not technically capable of this use under any circumstances due to its fixed design.

Many installations will already be future proofed for these changes. This thread mainly aims to help with those that are not. Details will start in the next post.
Anyone with one Smart LNB (SLNB) feeding their decoder(s) is already ok in this need.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2017-02-13 , 18:38
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
Changes remote batteries hourly
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: N/E JHB , Orig. Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,324
We will be talking about how to best connect the following decoders;

HD PVR 4P
HD PVR 4U
HD PVR 2P
HD PVR 2U
Explora (model 1)
4136 HD Decoder (the newer "4U", not a PVR)
Explora 2A

All of the above decoders have the choice to, or only use Unicable LNB connections. Therefore any combination of the above decoders can use either the old or new SLNB.
This is likely to be the easiest solution. Just the user band details need to be altered for XtraView setups. That need is largely covered in Smart LNB (SLNB) installations and settings

Also, those more new to the forum can see this thread for a wide list of other help threads: General technical assistance for installation, decoder usage and errors

----------------

Those without a SLNB;

Firstly, note that the conventional MultiSwitch (MS) will become useless (if / when wanting to include the Hi Band services).
I'm unaware of any standard MS that can switch all four of the parameters that will be needed - Lo Vertical, Lo Horizontal, Hi Vertical and Hi Horizontal. If anyone knows of such a device please post a link here.
(The Explora Switches are partially a MS in their activity, but don't qualify being labelled as an actual MS).

What actually has to be done for these circumstances in the next post ->
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2017-02-13 , 19:03
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
Changes remote batteries hourly
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: N/E JHB , Orig. Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,324
(Forgot to say that those with the end of support (NOT end of life) HD PVR 4U and 2U are the only ones who already partially need these changes, most of them will already be aware of that.)


If not already using a SLNB, the main consideration for included Hi Band usage is the LNB.

Out now goes the humble universal Twin LNB for many - it can't handle this combination of services for more than 2 Universal (Legacy) LNB inputs total for the decoder(s) under any circumstances. Nor can it now properly supply to an Explora Switch (ES), so can't be expanded that way or be ever used on an Explora.
So only still good for direct Universal (Legacy) use with a 2P, 2U or 4136. The only Hi Band included HD decoders XtraView (XV) option with this LNB is 2 x 4136's.

Those with a SATCR LNB - some may be able to handle all the changes, but MC does not do everything according to general technical specifications used internationally so that's not a certainty.
Those trying it will already know to make use of the Unicable outputs, and where applicable some use of the Universal (Legacy) output(s) when available.

The best non-SLNB option is a Quad or Quatro LNB.
Quad is recommended as it's a bit more versatile in partial failure circumstances (not something most users need to ever consider), and can be connected directly to all but the Explora decoder(s).
This Quad LNB delivers a choice of all 4 LNB parameter options as needed on each of its four outputs.

For the Quad:
Those with any Exploras, and all of those with XV who need more than 4 Universal (Legacy) LNB inputs total (or who want to instead use Unicable) - an Explora Switch (ES) would also be needed (only sold separately).
Each of the 4 LNB outputs are then connected in any order to the 4 ES inputs.
(With a Quatro LNB all those connections are instead specific. Quatros need the ES under all circumstances.)
The ES's deliver both Universal (Legacy) and Unicable outputs which can be used as needed on the decoders. The many specific setup possibilities will need to be discussed individually if required.

Note that the original version 5-1 ES is not reliable enough for using both of its Unicable output ports.

Those using Unicable (including the SATCR version) on more than one decoder also need to look at the user band settings: Smart LNB (SLNB) installations and settings
Update - note that which ES is used also needs to be considered due to newer decoder combination options, but anyone needing a new ES will end up with the latest model
24-1z, now called the Smart Switch (SS), which can cover all possibilities.

An Octo LNB (8 Universal (Legacy) output ports) can offer better advantages to some.


That should do as a start, all queries and comments welcome.
(I'll try to be around for the next few days to help further.)

Last edited by Optimist; 2017-02-16 at 11:06. . Reason: Update added re Explora Switches (ES)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2017-02-14 , 09:58
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
Technical Myriad
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: PTA
Posts: 16,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
I'll get the ball rolling with this, more may be added later by those so inclined.
Note that it's all Forumites' interpretations, probably accurate in most respects but not an official announcement of course.
Preparing early is a good idea, and the install advice we offer here will be accurate.

MC are planning to add Hi Band transponders to the service in a few months time or perhaps longer.
Today they started some tests on it.
The frequency that Hi Band normally starts at has been shifted a bit higher by MC for current technical reasons. That may change again, we don't know (just a technical consideration, won't have unknown impacts).

At this stage we don't know with any certainty if any SD decoders will be made able to use the Hi Band offerings, so this discussion isn't likely to include them at this time.
Note that the South African SD PVR is not technically capable of this use under any circumstances due to its fixed design.

Many installations will already be future proofed for these changes. This thread mainly aims to help with those that are not. Details will start in the next post.
Anyone with one Smart LNB (SLNB) feeding their decoder(s) is already ok in this need.
Not entirely accurate. The SD PVR IS capable of picking up and decoding Hi-band transponders (and has always been capable of Hi-band reception). The issue comes in around whether any channels added to transponders are transmitted using DVB-S. The SD PVR is not able to decode DVB-S2 signals.
The above is why the SD PVR detects the new transponders when rebooting but after that shows nothing.

Should MC choose to use a Hi-band transponder for SD channels transmitted using the DVB-S standard, the decoder will be able to decode those channels, PROVIDED MC makes some software changes.

And BTW, for the statement made a few times on this forum, that the new satellite is a standby satellite for MC services, The issue of whether the satellite is only Hi-band capable, is not entirely correct either.
__________________
Easyview, UEC 4T HD PVR, SD PVR, XV
Spare decoders: SD PVR(2), PACE HD PVR 4T, DSD 660, 1110, 1131, Explora 1
2 unmentionable FTA decoders
Win 10 Pro (64-bit) version 1703, build 15063.138
1.2m antenna, 8-way universal LNB, 2x6 MS, FSM permanently connected.
MS Edge 40 with MSEdge HTML 15

Last edited by Geoff D; 2017-02-14 at 10:05. .
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2017-02-14 , 10:04
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
Changes remote batteries hourly
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: N/E JHB , Orig. Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,324
Not well enough phrased in this case, sorry Geoff. What I'm referring to isn't just Hi Band but the wider choice using of V/L, V/H, HL & HH inputs into 2 ports for 3 tuners which cannot be comprehensively done with existing equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2017-10-02 , 16:10
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
Changes remote batteries hourly
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: N/E JHB , Orig. Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
At this stage we don't know with any certainty if any SD decoders will be made able to use the Hi Band offerings, so this discussion isn't likely to include them at this time.
Over the last couple of weeks it seems this factor has changed.
There's now a new free-to-air test channel for all IS20/36 countries that is delivering a test pattern on the main DStv bouquet's channel 910 that's on a DVB-S SD "true" Hi Band transmission, therefore presumed planned to be available to (most) SD decoders as well.
It's called "F2885", and its first i-Plate entry and synopsis is titled "Hi Band".

(Also note that all previously launched Hi Band transponders are not designed for SD use.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
Note that the South African SD PVR is not technically capable of this use under any circumstances due to its fixed design.
This needs quite a bit more discussion.
It turns out that the SD PVR can at least handle what some of us are calling the "interim hi band" transponders.
By interim, we mean the small overflow section where converted-Lo-Band-carrying IF ends, where it actually carries the start of the converted Hi Band frequencies. So these interim, or initial frequencies can still work with Lo Band settings, unlike the higher-still frequencies yet to come.

This is what the "switching frequency" is all about on the HD PVRs which have been able to have that setting, due to this option those that would normally need it haven't yet needed Hi Band feeds from Universal LNBs.

However, although it also means that if you change your SD PVR's Home Network "LNB Mode" to "Single Frequency" then you would also get any of these "interim" Hi Band frequencies, remember that this 11888 is the only Hi Band frequency so far to deliver SD and it's unfortunately already now at the higher "true" Hi Band frequencies so beyond the SD PVR's reach...

Supposedly anyway...
Despite careful examination by some of us it seems that the threshold where converted-Lo-Band-carrying IF ends what it can carry of the start of converted Hi Band, is actually higher than expected. At least that's the case with my setup.
I have a quad LNB feeding a 5-2 Explora Switch including its Hi Band inputs, and two of its Universal outputs feed my SD PVR. For some reason although this new testing channel is "too high" on 11888V it is still usable on my SD PVR
Whatever the reason (possibly a LNB with a wider than standard IF range, will check sometime), it does appear to be right on the edge as I sometimes have to toggle with specific channels to get it to display the coloured test bars.
But higher-still frequencies, if even SD decoder compatible at all, certainly cannot ever work properly in conjunction with the other frequencies & polarities needed on any SD PVR.

A bit of a pointless exercise though, given the terminal problems the SD PVRs now suffer from...


This was difficult to try fully explain, so please do post questions if anything is uncertain and hopefully one of us who understands it will be around to help.

Last edited by Optimist; 2017-10-02 at 16:35. . Reason: Minor tidy up
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2017-10-02 , 16:29
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
Changes remote batteries hourly
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: N/E JHB , Orig. Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,324
It's also worth mentioning that the new test channel 910 is visible on the Exploras (if you know how to look), but although I'm feeding in Hi Band frequencies this particular one is not yet recognised (E48).

I don't know if that's the case on all Exploras / 4136 HD Decoders, nor do I know what's currently going on with that on other decoders. But it doesn't matter, it's very likely that all these other decoders will eventually work with this transponder.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2017-10-02 , 17:14
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
Changes remote batteries hourly
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: N/E JHB , Orig. Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,324
Last from me for now (this edited post has the actual facts).
Correction re quote below:

The upper threshold of what the standard IF (Intermediate Frequency) range is able to carry when using the Lo Band local oscillator, is a satellite's Hi Band 11900 frequency.

What the earlier post's SD PVR confusion was actually about was the HD Decoders' "switching frequency" which they set too low for 11888V to work with, no doubt with some good but unknown reason in mind.
(They set it at 11880.)

So "true" Hi Band will actually start with what I presume will be the next transponder frequency up, namely 11928. But as far as MC's plans go it may be best to continue considering 11888 as our somewhat practical start of "true", at least for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
Supposedly anyway...
Despite careful examination by some of us it seems that the threshold where converted-Lo-Band-carrying IF ends what it can carry of the start of converted Hi Band, is actually higher than expected. At least that's the case with my setup.
I have a quad LNB feeding a 5-2 Explora Switch including its Hi Band inputs, and two of its Universal outputs feed my SD PVR. For some reason although this new testing channel is "too high" on 11888V it is still usable on my SD PVR
Whatever the reason (possibly a LNB with a wider than standard IF range, will check sometime)...

Last edited by Optimist; 2017-10-02 at 22:45. .
Reply With Quote
Reply
« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads  | You may not post replies  | You may not post attachments  | You may not edit your posts
BB code is On  | Smilies are On  | [IMG] code is On  | HTML code is Off
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
127 Sony preparing to go WS? cdbjhb Picture/Audio Quality 1 2013-11-18 12:17
C Band Services on Intelsat 10 Code Warrior Service Queries 10 2010-02-26 16:21
Madagascar W7 or c-band E.Koen Service Queries 0 2010-01-24 15:17
Required Tuner Band MAFer Installation 2 2009-12-09 16:44
Dual-view C-Band LNB SD PVR config sandCat Installation 0 2009-07-07 08:58