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-   -   EPG error or the new software (http://forum.dstv.com/showthread.php?t=38580)

Jan Horn 2017-05-16 11:54

EPG error or the new software
 
4 Attachment(s)
We were away from home for 3 weeks Tuesday 18 April to Tuesday 8 May. The Explora 2A was left in standby mode and all the scheduled recordings bar 1 (Epg error) went off perfectly as one would expect. Some would say that it is a miracle. I say well done MC your software functioned as intended.

When the Explora 2A was switch out of standby upon returning home a banner flashed up regarding the software update(too quick to read) and the decoder promptly proceeded to download and install the software update which took around 21 minutes.

I think it is safe to conclude that that the successful recordings of the preceding 3 weeks were all done using the old software.

This morning when checking the scheduled recordings for the day I notice that the recording for Chicago Med show a recording conflict. None of my safety net settings or any other settings has been changed during the week.

Checking the EPG schedules for the period show

Chicago Fire 19:30-20:30
Chicago PD 20:30-21:29
Chicago Med 21:29-22:30
Broadchurch 22:30-23:30

Nothing that can cause a recording schedule conflict. The only change is that the decoder is now running on the new software. I cannot find any reason for the sudden recording conflict as my attached screen shots will show.

With the havoc caused by recording conflicts on the New Binge channel 900 over the weekend I am starting to doubt that it was caused by the EPG but rather lean towards the new software causing the issue. But then I am relatively new to using a Explora and I will leave it up to MC to sort out.

I have posted this in the PVR forum rather than the Broadcasting errors one because I can see no error in the EPG scheduling for the effected period.

Geoff D 2017-05-16 12:20

Thanks Jan. A very useful post!

All recordings went off without a hitch on the old software, and now immediately after the sw update everything breaks. At least MC should now be on the right track as to where to look. But, at the same time, the issues with these constant EPG changes should also be addressed.

MC Marietjie 2017-05-16 13:11

@JanHorn - there is a conflict at 20:30 between Chicago Fire and OD and at 22:30. Remember that 1 minute on the 30 is an overlap and therefore causes the conflict.

This is what we discussed with M-Net last week - even just a 1 second overlap is seen as a conflict by the decoder software. They're supposed to do only to 29 minutes past the hour and then starting at 30 again.

Jan Horn 2017-05-16 13:40

@Marietjie I don't see the overlap you mention. Also any overlap with Chicago Fire should not effect the recording of Chicago Med as I am not recording
Chicago Fire.

MC Marietjie 2017-05-16 13:53

If a show ends at 20:30 and the next one begins at 20:30, there is an overlap of one minute at 20:30.

Krugie 2017-05-16 14:01

[QUOTE=MC Marietjie;344763]They're supposed to do only to 29 minutes past the hour and then starting at 30 again.[/QUOTE]

I agree this will most likely solve the problem but ever since day 1 the Explora worked fined if one program ends 20H30 and the other starts 20:30 - this has never caused a conflict. :confused:

The biggest problem currently is that the EPG get changed to say a program starts 20:29 which then often causes a conflict on ANOTHER channel where a recording is only ending at 20H30. Or a recording is in progress from 20H30 to 21H30 on a channel and then the following program on the same channel has its starting time amended to 20:29 - causing a conflict on the SAME channel with back-to-back recordings.

Geoff D 2017-05-16 14:04

@ Jan,

Have you checked the schedule list for an older setting, still there but no longer valid or used? Could just be that setting that is messing up the conflict resolution process.

We had the same issues with the older decoders, even with the SD PVR with TBRs. One had to allow for a "switching time" between settings, as the processors could not process the shutting down of the one recording and the start of the next.
It was solved by allowing the SD PVR to start a recording late instead of not starting the recording at all.

It could be now that the latest software has again raised a similar problem.

Only way out is a deliberate gap between settings (as suggested with the one ending at "29" and the next starting at "30"), or to allow a follow on recording to start late, generating a warning message, but not blocking the recording from happening.

Either way, these issues are arising because of the change in the sw and the EPG scheduling issues, (especially late changes).

The answer short term is NOT to rely on EPG settings and make use of MRs instead. In the case of the SD PVR, this went from a short term solution to a lifetime solution as nothing was ever done to address the issue.

Krugie 2017-05-16 14:06

[QUOTE=MC Marietjie;344775]If a show ends at 20:30 and the next one begins at 20:30, there is an overlap of one minute at 20:30.[/QUOTE]

This has never been the case - programs have always been scheduled like this. It is exactly these 1-minute changes that are causing conflicts - not resolving them.

MC Marietjie 2017-05-16 14:07

@Krugie - this is about how it is scheduled in the background and what the software sees. Perhaps it is sufficient to say thank you for the input - the software teams are looking at this, and at the same time M-Net teams are ensuring their EPG changes are not contributing to the issue.

Krugie 2017-05-16 14:10

[QUOTE=MC Marietjie;344790]@Krugie - this is about how it is scheduled in the background and what the software sees. Perhaps it is sufficient to say thank you for the input - the software teams are looking at this, and at the same time M-Net teams are ensuring their EPG changes are not contributing to the issue.[/QUOTE]


Thanks MoM - I will leave it at that but my view remains that a new bug was recently introduced on the Explora and now changes to the EPG and scheduling is being introduced to compensate for the bug..... This was also reflected in another post where someone was away for 3 weeks and all his recordings worked until he got home and upgraded his software - after which he started experiencing these conflicts.

MC Marietjie 2017-05-16 14:12

Yes we agree with your assessment, hence why the software team are looking into it. We're not getting scheduling to compensate for it - we're making sure scheduling is accurate (as it should always be) and is not changed last minute. We know this will not address the entire problem, but it is good to get it fixed in any way and ensure M-Net has the right processes in place. That does not stop the software investigating and trouble-shooting.

Krugie 2017-05-16 14:15

Noted.... thanks. :cool:

Jan Horn 2017-05-16 15:41

[QUOTE=Krugie;344793]Thanks MoM - I will leave it at that but my view remains that a new bug was recently introduced on the Explora and now changes to the EPG and scheduling is being introduced to compensate for the bug..... This was also reflected in another post where someone was away for 3 weeks and all his recordings worked until he got home and upgraded his software - after which he started experiencing these conflicts.[/QUOTE]
@Krugie It actually is this thread. I fully agree the software introduced a new bug
@Marietjie I have been living with the Explora 2A for 4 months after I made the change due to the continued unsolved problems with rebooting on the Pace HD PVR 2P.

In this time more than 90% of my scheduled recordings were series based back to back recordings. The only serious failings were where Mnet pushed extra advertising into the "My Kitchen Rules" primetime timeslot resulting in extending the airing by between 9 and 12 minutes and forgot or failed to amend the EPG.

What we are told now is that since the software update broke that was not broken before we will now not be able to do back to back recordings as that will cause recording conflicts.

Being a pensioner mean that we are able to be away from home when ever we choose. To switch from SBR to TBR is not an option.

We really have enjoyed the Explora sofar but it look like our honeymoon is over and our frustrations are about to start all over again.

MC Marietjie 2017-05-16 16:17

Rest assured that the teams are working on fixing it so you can do back-to-back recordings on the Explora and have a hassle-free experience. I just saw an email that they've identified the issue and it is indeed related to the EPG with a mix of the software. We're hoping for a resolution soon.

Jan Horn 2017-05-16 18:09

Thanks for the feedback Marietjie

Mad Cat 2017-05-17 09:04

[QUOTE=MC Marietjie;344763]@JanHorn - there is a conflict at 20:30 between Chicago Fire and OD and at 22:30. Remember that 1 minute on the 30 is an overlap and therefore causes the conflict.

This is what we discussed with M-Net last week - even just a 1 second overlap is seen as a conflict by the decoder software. They're supposed to do only to 29 minutes past the hour and then starting at 30 again.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MC Marietjie;344775]If a show ends at 20:30 and the next one begins at 20:30, there is an overlap of one minute at 20:30.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Krugie;344778]I agree this will most likely solve the problem but ever since day 1 the Explora worked fined if one program ends 20H30 and the other starts 20:30 - this has never caused a conflict. :confused:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Krugie;344787]This has never been the case - programs have always been scheduled like this. It is exactly these 1-minute changes that are causing conflicts - not resolving them.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MC Marietjie;344790]@Krugie - this is about how it is scheduled in the background and what the software sees.[/QUOTE]

I actually wrote a similar question in the Technical thread regarding this, but for some reason it was not posted.

As I interpret this: This 1 minute overlap that is now being blamed for all the problems is obviously a behind the scences thing that the machine implements and does not require action from the user. Scheduling and setting of recordings does not reflect the 1 minute: scheduling reflects programes as starting on the hour or half hour (ignoring the EPG stuff ups) directly after each other and recordings are set using EPG or series record - no adjustments are made by the user to account for the 1 minute.

So, as I understand, the machine for some reason no longer takes the 1 minute into account (however, this does not seem to happen consistently either) when recording, so programmes that are recorded back to back, now seem to overlap, and are failed due to a conflict.

Basically, the machine cannot be relied upon to identfy a conflict correctly, so currently I'm setting MR for anything that is close to back to back.

Optimist 2017-05-22 09:22

A possible reason for the back-to-back failures since discovered;

[QUOTE=Optimist;345558]Another issue this weekend - programs starting within the previous minute to what the decoder understands as being the correct time (not just M-Net). Seem related to the trick mode changes, I've noticed that now there's a few seconds left over that can't be viewed at the very end of some CU titles...[/QUOTE]

I've also been pleased to see that MC have added what strongly appears to be a test channel for the problem - 470 "Recess" (a lesser know dictionary definition of the word is that it's something hidden from view ;))
It's E16 but I've seen older copies of [I]Twin Peaks[/I] scheduled on it without in-between breaks.

MC Marietjie 2017-05-22 11:32

@Optimist - this is a test channel that we're using to pinpoint the EPG/recording and software issues. So you will see a number of things scheduled on it from time-to-time as the teams test out recordings across various decoder models.

Geoff D 2017-05-22 12:42

Was not a very stable weekend. Had a number of "reboots" on both decoders.

But then I checked the power log and found that what I thought were "reboots" were not but were events that downloaded new versions of the EPG info.

What had me fooled was on the SD PVR, only a reboot would change the playlist sort order back to defaults. These EPG updates did the same.

Two of the EPG updates terminated recordings that were in progress, with no corresponding entry in the alert list or even warning triangles against the recordings indicating that the recording had been stopped??

Is this possible?

One recording on the UEC was similarly stopped without any indication as to why or appearing in the alert list.

Could the same have happened on the Exploras?

Krugie 2017-05-22 12:49

[QUOTE=Geoff D;345633]Could the same have happened on the Exploras?[/QUOTE]

I had no failures but I record very little over weekends.

MC Mpho 2017-05-22 13:09

Hi Geoff D,

We are looking into this query.
We will feedback as soon as possible.

Regards,
MC Mpho

MC Mpho 2017-05-22 14:22

Hi All,

We've made some changes on the EPG last week Tuesday and we should see less conflicts.

There would be schedules that were ingested before this change was done and for that reason, the decoder may still show this issue. To be safe, schedules from this week Wednesday should safely avoid conflicts.

We will continue to monitor.

Regards,
MC Mpho

MC Sandipa 2017-05-23 12:35

[QUOTE=Geoff D;345633]Was not a very stable weekend. Had a number of "reboots" on both decoders.

But then I checked the power log and found that what I thought were "reboots" were not but were events that downloaded new versions of the EPG info.

What had me fooled was on the SD PVR, only a reboot would change the playlist sort order back to defaults. These EPG updates did the same.

Two of the EPG updates terminated recordings that were in progress, with no corresponding entry in the alert list or even warning triangles against the recordings indicating that the recording had been stopped??

Is this possible?

One recording on the UEC was similarly stopped without any indication as to why or appearing in the alert list.

Could the same have happened on the Exploras?[/QUOTE]

Hi Geoff

Response from our techie is as follows:

The SDPVR has a shared tuner for Recordings and EPG. This means that if the decoder is recording it will not download the EPG even if there is an update is available. The decoder will only update the EPG after the recording has completed.

What could have happened:
Itís possible that there may be some bug or corner case where the SDPVR could have been doing a recording on a channel which is on the same transponder as the EPG data playout. In this case it may be possible that something like this may have happened. If it did then it would be a bug.

I would suggest that you reboot your SDPVR just in case it is in some weird state.
The issue which was experienced on the SDPVR would be different from the issue on the Explora.

Ta

Geoff D 2017-05-29 16:06

Thanks for the feedback I appreciate it. Unfortunately, due to a family emergency, I was not able to check on anything till today. I had to reboot the SD PVR twice this morning, once because it was frozen (no idea wen it froze, as the last time I accessed the decoder was on the 22nd), and a second time, because of incorrect channels numbering when the EPG was displayed.


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